Hi, I'm Jeff Rea, your host for Economic Outlook.

Welcome to our show.

We hope you make plans each week to join us as we discuss the region's most important economic development initiatives.

It's baseball season once again, and we've drafted the region's biggest baseball fan to join us today for an inside look at baseball stadium plans and the season ahead.

Join me for a conversation with Andrew Berlin, the owner of the Midwest League champion South Bend Cubs.

Coming up on economic outlook.

He's changed the way we think about baseball in South Bend in a good way and to date has invested more than $30 million of his own money in downtown to help build a wonderful regional attraction at four winds field.

His investment, along with the investment from the proceeds generated from the Professional Sports Convention Development area and City funds, has given us one of the finest ballparks in all of baseball.

And additional improvements could be on the horizon.

We're sitting down today with the owner of the Class A Midwest League champion South Bend Cubs, Andrew Berlin.

Andrew, welcome.

It's great to see you, Jeff.

Thank you.

Andrew, always glad to have you here.

Baseball, one of my favorite topics to talk about and we have to remember to talk economy and such.

But thanks for being here.

So, you know, I touched on this.

You've been involved to talk to us a little bit about your involvement in the South Bend Cubs and how long you've been here now.

Yes.

So I signed the contract to buy the team on November 11th, 2011, at 11:11 a.m..

So, Joe, former Governor Joe Kernan and former mayor of the city, Joe Kernan wanted to sign the agreement with all 11.

So it's 1111 11 at 11:11 a.m. before just for good luck, because, you know, good baseball owners and players are superstitious that way.

And actually, it was a really good idea because we've had a wonderful almost 13 years now and it's been a fantastic ride.

Great.

So, Andrew, let's go back in time even before that.

So this love affair that you have with baseball, when when did that start?

That started right after the White Sox won the World Series in Chicago.

I had the opportunity at that time to buy out the interests of one of the partner owners of the White Sox, along with Jerry Reinsdorf.

And after purchase, he and his stake in the White Sox.

There were a number of other partners, and we had a part of the White Sox who wanted to sell their interest to me.

So I rolled up a number of different partners of the White Sox and was able to aggregate a fairly nice chunk of the White Sox and enjoyed the ownership there along with Reinsdorf family.

But I didn't really have an opportunity to contribute whatever ideas and thoughts I had and how to improve the baseball experience.

And unfortunately, the White Sox viewership or attendance, I should say, started to dip after they won the World Series.

And that was disappointing, I think, to everybody.

And and the White Sox struggled a bit with attendance.

And meanwhile, the Cubs were doing a big renovation of Wrigley.

And I was approached at that time by the Cubs to join their ownership group and then finally made the decision to do so.

Of course, to do so, you can't have an active ownership in two major league teams.

So I transferred my ownership to my five children of the White Sox and and I have part of the Cubs.

So we're actually a we root for both teams, but we have a slight bias for the Cubs so that so that was in 2014.

Okay so so we the baseball player is a kid.

Did you talk to us about your your experience on the field?

I played a lot of merchant league softball.

Okay.

And then but I was I was more of a football player.

Okay.

And so but I did that distinguish myself playing baseball or football, but had a lot of fun doing it.

But then again, the baseball business is really not just about the sport.

It's about the entertainment business and it's the entertainment industry.

If you think about it.

And we're trying to attract, you know, viewership, we're trying to, you know, sell as much food and merchandise as we can, but provide an amazing experience.

And and I have to say, even more so than the major league experience, the minor league experience in South Bend has probably been the most gratifying.

Yes.

So let's go back to 2011.

You've make this decision to buy the South Bend Cubs.

And then over the summer, as I said at the time, of course.

And so then over time, this the experience at the ballpark has has changed a little bit.

So just just for those maybe who aren't familiar, talk about a little some of the things that are different from the time when you bought the team to where you're at today.

Yeah.

So what we did is when we bought the South Bend Silver Hawks, one of the things I first want to understand, I didn't want to make any assumptions about what people were looking for.

I mean, I know what I enjoyed about the ballpark.

I know what I enjoyed in terms of, you know, being at the ballpark, whether it's the merchandise or the food or the cleanliness.

But these are these are going to be important part of the turnaround because the South Bend Silver Hawks were struggling at the time.

The team was looking at moving out of the state of Indiana, moving to Illinois.

The team was losing money.

The team was having a great deal of difficulty also being a Diamondbacks affiliate.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of Diamondback fans, even let alone in Arizona, let alone in Indiana.

And so we knew the affiliation was going to be a problem as well.

But we did our best.

We did a lot of focus groups.

We spoke to a lot of people in South Bend and and found out that actually moms make the decision come to our ballpark more often than fathers.

So then we asked the moms, you know, what is it that you like when you come to the ballpark?

And the answers we got were safety and security, comfort of the seats, good food and clean bathrooms.

These were the top four attributes.

And so we set out to really deliver on those four things.

And, you know, we had a we did a lot of public relations and marketing, you know, making a lot of promises and what the experience would be like.

And I have to say with the with the guidance of our president, Joe Hart, and our general manager, Nick Brown, and Chris Hagstrom, our assistant general manager, they they lent a lot of support and leadership and we recruited some really great people to deliver an amazing experience.

And so the ballpark really started to get busy again.

It got very clean.

We did a, you know, a number of renovations.

The city had already done some renovations before I got there, but we turned it into a real jewel.

And then in 2014, we were able to reach an agreement with the Cubs to replace the Diamondbacks to become a Cubs affiliate affiliate.

And that's where we really the team really rocketed.

And merchandise sales, for example, were up 700% in 2015.

And the experience just got better and better.

And we've made a number of different renovations to the ballpark.

We built the apartments that bring the ballpark.

Now, the Ivy, at Berlin place.

And it's just it's held a lot of momentum.

But like anything, like any business, the only thing that happens naturally in any business is chaos.

Everything else takes effort, right?

And so to have success year after year after year, we had to continue to innovate and continue to change and continue to make the ballpark more interesting for the crowds coming the following season and coming up on the horizon.

And you alluded to it earlier, there are some amazing changes on the way.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I joke with folks I've known you for 12 plus years, the number of times I've heard you talk about the cleanliness of the bathrooms at Four Winds Field But but you're right.

These are important details that that you and your team just knocked out of the park.

It's symbolic because everybody no one really wants to talk about it, but everybody thinks about it.

One of the worst experiences in going to a ballpark is how dirty or smelly the bathrooms might be.

You'll never find that at our ballpark.

As a matter of fact, we have a three minute video on how to clean a toilet and involves toothbrushes and toilet brushes and all sorts of things.

And I tell the story all the time that because of just how clean the bathroom is.

But it's it's it's symbolic of how we pay attention to the detail.

Right.

And the more you pay attention to detail, I think the more your fans really appreciate it.

Yep.

Andrew, let's talk a little bit.

You hinted at this.

This is a little bit of a public private partnership.

So the stadium owned by the city, you're a tenant there.

Talk a little bit about the importance of that relationship.

Well, it's extremely important to the city and and our team, our partners in this in this venture.

So the city owns the ballpark.

I have a lease that I've signed until 2041.

I've extended it a number of times since I've been in town.

And, you know, we pay, you know, a lot of taxes, sales taxes, ticket taxes to the city, and we provide a tremendous return on investment for the city.

But more than that, more than just the taxes we pay or the partnership there.

But we've been able to attract over 3.2 million people to downtown South Bend since we've been the Cubs.

And, you know, that includes, you know, games and concerts and flea markets and all sorts of activities.

It's become a real gathering place for the city of South Bend and for all the residents of of the entire region, not just in South Bend.

We look at the population in a radius around our our home plate.

We figure it's about 750,000 people within a 45 minute drive of our home plate.

So that's a lot of people to attract a downtown.

And you being here, a resident here for a long time, you know better than anybody.

But, you know, downtown South Bend was struggling right before we got to South Bend in 2011.

A lot of businesses had left, and for decades it had struggled.

And so we came to a downtown South Bend that was fairly empty.

And there were a lot of, you know, dark storefronts, not a lot of traffic coming through the city.

And with the times, stoplights, you know, that you could go through the downtown South Bend in a matter of seconds.

But we made a commitment to the to the mayor at that time Mayor Luecke you know, the mayors that have succeeded him, that our development here, the work that we're doing, is not just to create a great experience at the ballpark, but to also make coming to downtown South Bend been a great investment for other businesses.

So we've seen other people bringing headquarters, other corporations bringing headquarters downtown.

More offices, more apartment buildings are being built.

And I just it really warms our heart that we've really been somewhat of a catalyst to some of that work being done in downtown South Bend.

And so it really isn't just about baseball.

It really is a partnership, like you say.

Great.

Andrew were going to take a quick break here in the studio, we're going to go out to the field.

I'm sending George Lepeniotis, George, my co-host, going over to the ballpark to give it an inside look over there.

George, let me toss it to you.

Thanks, Jeff.

I know you've got a great guest in the studio, but I think I've got a pretty good guest right here at Four Winds Field.

Joe, thanks for being with us.

Thanks my pleasure, Joe.

You are the president of the South Bend Cubs, and you've been a long time friend of our program.

We've seen a lot of changes here.

As a matter of fact, that's kind of what I was thinking about as I drove over here.

But one thing that's constant here at Four Winds Field over the past 12 years has been change.

Yeah, for sure.

Tell us a little bit about your time here and kind of the highlights of what's really developed and how this has become kind of a really great franchise.

It's hard to believe, but this is my 12th year here in South Bend and really from the day I got here to now, it's an entirely different look at the ballpark.

I mean, probably the number one thing that we probably take the most pride in, the fact that we're now a Chicago Cubs affiliate.

You know, my first three years here, we were South Bend, Silver Hawks Diamondbacks, were a great organization to work with not many Arizona Diamondback fans here in South Bend, Indiana.

So when we made the change, that was huge.

The other thing we take a lot of pride in is the Ivy at Berlin Place.

You know, we added these apartments here, You know, when the stadium was originally built in 1987, it was supposed to be a catalyst for that.

Now, it took about 30 years, but we got there and then obviously the facility itself built in 87.

You know, last year we won single-A ballpark of the year, you know, and you're competing in stadiums that are within four or five years old.

So to win, that is pretty special.

Well, and we're standing on the rooftop, right, what you call the rooftop here at Four Winds Field.

And it looks over the back side of the ballpark.

It gives us a sense of the scale and the neatness of this game day here in South Bend right at tonight's game.

And we know we've had our you had your season opener recently.

Tell us a little bit about, first off, last year's champions.

Yeah, but how has that done to kind of the feel of the place?

I mean, the last time we were here, it was just after COVID, there was some concern about that.

Feels like it's really behind you.

Yeah, COVID is behind us now.

It's kind of nice.

We can truly focus on just the fan experience and get people out here and, you know, obviously opening day was phenomenal.

We had a little over 4000 people here on a Tuesday night.

The weather was spectacular, the whole homestand, spectacular.

And typically that doesn't happen in April.

But yeah, coming off the Midwest League Championship, that was special because we won the championship in 2019, but we never really got to celebrate it because there was no 2020 season.

So for us, it's just special.

The excitement is there.

You can feel, you can feel the energy when people come out.

And we have a great team again this year.

Now, for those of our viewers who maybe haven't been to the field in a while, there's been some changes to how the game is played.

Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about that and what you can expect now coming to watch a game.

I think the biggest thing was that some of these rules were implemented last year as a test run for Major League Baseball.

Obviously, Major League Baseball this year went to the pitch clock.

They have the larger bases.

We had all that last year.

The pitch clock is tremendous.

I know you've got a lot of the you know, the diehard fans are like, oh, how dare you do that?

But it's cut off about 30 minutes of the game.

And for us, there's a lot more activity.

You're seeing more stolen bases and that's what people want to see.

I see less people on their phones during the game because if you're on your phone, you're missing the action.

Whereas in previous years, you know, when you got 30 seconds in between every pitch, it's a little bit long and cumbersome.

Sure.

So for us, it's made all the difference in the world.

And obviously at the big league level this year, it's been very successful.

And so you're looking at a game time now of two, two and a half hours.

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

And in that two and a half hours, you're seeing maybe a lot more activity than you're you're seeing a consistent flow.

Whereas before that it was it was very choppy.

And you know, for us being so much family oriented, you know, when we do our firework show, when you have that game that's three and a half hours, it's now 1030, approaching 11.

You've got kids that can't stay up that late.

So now we're shooting fireworks for the folks that are here, that came here to watch the fireworks.

And that's that's just a great thing.

Awesome.

So that's where you're at today?

Yeah.

Where are we going in the future?

I know there's a big project potential coming up.

Your landlord's going to do some improvements to the place.

Yeah, we're working on it right now.

The plan is at the end of the 2024 season, we're looking at doing around a $50 million expansion.

So really what that would do, it would take the roof off the stadium and we would go up a level.

We kind of reconfigure centerfield, add some seating at a concession stand, and then we're looking at adding a three story building down the left field line that would give us the ability to host more off season events.

Right now, we just don't have the space.

You know, we want to do wedding receptions, we want to do graduation parties.

We want to do a lot of that so that right now we just can't do in the winter time because we don't have a facility big enough to to host it.

And so it's exciting.

I mean, every year we've done a little bit to the ballpark to make it different.

This year was the brand new scoreboard.

And, you know, Andrew saying and our saying here is, you know, often pleased but never satisfied.

And that's the thing.

A lot of companies, when they're doing well, they just kind of go status quo for us.

We're always trying to up our game.

Yeah, Yeah.

And that's really palpable around here.

I mean, you know, we were talking about before we went on air, guys behind us prepping for a game day, washing down seats, wiping down garbage cans.

The fan experience really is paramount here.

And so this expansion will really increase that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I tell people all the time, it's like that's what we kind of hang our hat on.

Customer service, cleanliness.

You know, as much as I love when we win, that is tremendous.

But I don't control that anybody between the white lines, that's all Chicago Cubs employees.

So I have to focus on the things that we can control.

That's fireworks, giveaways, quality of food and your customer service experience.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

So back to the product, because I know a lot of our viewers love the team and you know, it's a championship team, right?

Which is always something you can embrace.

You can have a couple of guys that went to the Cubs, right?

Yeah.

So over the last couple of years, Ian Happ, who just signed an extension with Chicago for three more years, Niko Hoerner, second baseman, he just signed an extension.

So you're starting to see more and more guys that have come through South Bend make it to the big leagues, and that's exciting.

I mean, when you're a hundred miles away from Wrigley Field, you can watch a guy here today, you know, two, three years.

You can watch him at Wrigley Field.

Yeah, that's exciting.

That's the fun part about that experience.

Well, that's awesome.

So, Joe, before I let you go, tell me, early spring, I mean, we've got some unbelievable weather.

There's some cool things coming up at the ballpark.

Still availability of tickets, right?

I mean, people can just walk up.

Come on in.

Enjoy a night.

Yeah, there's a couple of ways to get tickets.

You know, you go to South Bend Cubs .com, you can buy them online.

You can still walk up to the box off dude old fashioned way or you can call 5742359988 just to get tickets.

And yeah, you know, we got 60 plus games to go to the rest of the summer.

If the weather like this in April is any indication, we're going to roll along through the rest of the summer months.

Well, Joe, thanks again, man.

Thanks for having us.

I'm a little bit disappointed you're not wearing the ring.

I know, because if you were, I would have taken it from you because I hear that Jeff back in the studio happens to be wearing a certain ring and enjoying his time with Andrew.

Jeff, back to you.

The ring and Mr. Berlin.

George, thank you.

I appreciate it.

I know it's one of your favorite assignments to go to the ballpark.

We're glad you could do that today, Andrew.

As we come back, I want to talk a little bit about just sort of the hardware on our hands.

I in my intro, I mentioned that the Midwest League champions, but ultimately you've been part of the Chicago Cubs.

Talk a little bit about just the the hardware here on our two hands.

Well, the ring on your finger is probably most people would think that is the fantastic ring and that is the World Series ring for 2016 that broke the 108 year old curse having said that, there are 108 diamonds on that ring that symbolize the 108 years and the rest of it is rubies and sapphires, that rock that ring.

But what you're viewers cannot see is that inside of your ring on the band portion of the ring, there is the decapitated goat.

Oh, wow.

There's a goat head.

There's a goat head in your ring And that is the curse of the billy goat.

That is no longer pretty cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing.

And thanks.

I know you've had some great success on the field here locally.

We talked about it's not just about baseball.

We mentioned briefly the investment outside.

So.

So talk briefly about you not only have invested in the team and what's happened with the neighborhood around it, but just briefly tell us about how things are going outside the four walls of the stadium and then in the neighborhood there?

Yeah.

So again, inspired by the Wrigley Experience and the buildings across the street on Waveland, you know, the Greystones and the brownstones that are they have seating on the roof.

We have buildings that ring the outfield of Four Winds Field, the Ivy at Berlin Place, there are 121 units there, along with all the amenities you might expect and a premium development there for the apartment buildings.

But we're full, currently full and we have balconies that people can entertain on that overlook the field from the left field corner, all the way to left center.

And and it's it's a great experience.

We also have the grandstands and the bar and restaurant on the rooftop of one of the buildings over again overlooking left field.

It just adds to the party.

I mean, it's it's it's happy people people entertaining people, sitting in the comfort of their apartment, watching the game.

I have an apartment over there as well.

I have to say, when I when I wake up in the morning, I just pull pull up the blinds and my bed is literally next to the window.

And I look out over the field in the morning and it's just it's a it's a really a lovely, lovely view in downtown South Bend.

You know, it's exciting.

I think back if we went all the way back to the eighties, we always hoped the baseball field would catalyze development.

It certainly has helped with your investment there.

But also right now another 200 units planned in the neighborhood around it, another $65 million invested.

So really building that critical mass that we'd hoped for a long time.

So so let's let's shift a little bit to the to the stadium because because you've made a lot of improvements to the stadium over the last few years, you and your partners.

And there's a chance to we're dreaming of the next phase of it.

Talk a little bit about what's next step forward.

Yeah, well, listen, we've invested tens of millions of dollars of our own money in a city owned stadium, which is almost unheard of in any kind of business.

You're investing in something you can't take with you if you ever were to leave.

We're not planning on it.

But again, it was not just a gift to the city, but it was our investment in the future.

The good news, however, is that those investments are going to bring some really magnificent returns and some wonderful legislation that the state of Indiana is on the cusp of approving.

And that is the opportunity to bring over a period of 20 years $5 million a year, which equates to $100 million to South Bend.

The wonderful thing about this is that no taxes are being increased.

It's just the professional Sports development fund or the area is a is a working law in Indiana that very few other states have that captures the income taxes and the sales taxes that are paid in downtown South Bend.

And rather than those funds going to Indianapolis, they stay in South Bend and South Bend and the city can then divvy up that those funds in any way that they can to establish a greater and stronger professional sports stadium and also other related areas around the stadium.

So you were very kind to assist with this also.

But we testify in front of the Appropriations Committee and the vote was 13 to 0 in favor, and then that went to the full Senate.

Again, the vote was 49 to 0, 100% in favor.

Move to the House Ways and Means Committee and we'll that vote will be, I think, on April 5th.

And then the full the full House will vote then.

And I think the governor has already signaled that this is a legislation that he supports.

So that means a tremendous amount of money is going to be coming to South Bend for further investment in the area.

And to me, I think that's one of the is is going to be one of the great successes for the city, regardless of where your political affiliation is or where you live.

This is good for everybody.

Yeah.

So so let's talk a little bit in our last 5 minutes or so about the just the stadium itself.

So where we have one of the best ballparks in the whole country, but where there's a chance for continuous improvement.

And I think you've mentioned that over the last 12 years, you've kind of continued to improve this.

But what's on the wish list?

What are some things that we might see that we have a lot of games that are sold out during the summer.

So we're going to try to increase capacity by almost 50%.

So we've had games where we sold 8100.

Actually, our biggest game was 8104 people in the stadium.

So we're going to try to get it to as close to 12,000 people as possible.

We're going to build up we're going to build another second deck all the way from one end of the concourse to the other.

We're going to be building convention center and more clubs and more restaurants.

We're going to improve the restaurants that we have there.

Now.

We want to develop center field also to create more of a bleacher experience out in center field.

Again, what works at Wrigley can certainly can work here in South Bend.

And and most importantly, it's going to be an even greater most beautiful, more beautiful jewel that belongs to the people of South Bend.

It's a city owned asset after everything said and done.

And so Aaron Perri and his team of marvelous things and Howard Park is a wonderful asset to the stadium or to the city.

This will be another extraordinary asset for the city moving forward.

I love this, and especially at a time when, again, you're here for the long haul, we feel like the Cubs are for a long haul.

Minor league baseball is is changing.

Some communities are wrestling with this.

You're really preparing South Bend to to be at the front of the line for minor league baseball in the years to come.

Absolutely.

And we will I think it'll continue for a long time.

Yeah.

So so some of that's not quite yet you won't see that construction yet this year but but down the road.

And so I think people are excited about that.

So in our last 2 minutes or so talk about just this summer.

Right.

So opening day is is soon you've got 70 plus nights where people can come out and experience help our folks understand what their experience out there this year might look like.

Well, baseball is going to be fantastic.

And we've in years past where we didn't have such a strong team, we talked a lot about the stadium and the experience in the seats.

I want to tell you, there's going to be some great baseball coming.

And with the pitch clock now, the games are typically taking about two and a half hours, which is fantastic.

Games aren't going for 4 hours or three and a half hours anymore.

And that's those are two things right there.

The amount of talent that's going to be there was on the team last year that won that championship.

A lot of them are coming back this year and there's going to be more great talent coming.

So there's going to be great baseball out there over a short period of time.

About two and a half hours is going to be the average length of the game.

We have new food items, new merchandise items.

The stadium is cleaner and better than ever.

But again, we are going to be breaking ground.

Our plan is to break ground that day after the last game in 2024 and try to be done by opening day by 2025.

That's exciting.

And I know in recent years with construction in the outfield and such, that's worked out really well.

I think people are really excited about it.

I, I love the mention of food.

I'm a big fan of that.

I saw the chef already introduced some of the new items for this year that that people should experience.

So I think people are really excited about doing just, you know, less 30 seconds of somebody who's never been tell them why they should come out and experience this.

Meet your neighbors.

If nothing else.

Friendships are made, relationships are made.

And there's a great sense of civic pride that comes with being a four winds field.

It's anyone who's been to a ballgame.

It's a summer night under the sky, no time clock if the game is over after nine innings.

But it is a lovely place to be with people who enjoy the city with you and a wonderful place to bring families together.

Awesome.

Well, he's Andrew Berlin is the owner of the South Bend Cubs Andrew, thank you for being with us.

Thank you, Jeff.

That's it for our show today.

On behalf of the entire team here at WNIT, thank you for watching or listening to our podcast to watch this episode.

Again, in any of our past episodes, you can find economic outlook at and WNIT.org or find our podcast on most major podcast platforms.

We encourage you to like us on Facebook or follow us on Twitter.

I'm Jeff Rea.

I'll see you next time.

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Thank you.